Talk:Against the Day

Half way through this mighty novel.It is a great work and I am hooked to this American Master(Zen?).

Cheerly and handsomely

Page 3 Both "cheerly" and "handsomely" appear in Shakespeare's The Tempest 1.1.5 and 5.1.294. Given the storms in ATD, this reference would not seem inadvertent.

Godshawl 08:49, 15 January 2007 (PST)

Yes, and The Tempest is seen as Shakespeare's most 'acceptance of life',late in life, play. With sprites, fairies and a New World. ATD is that and much other as well.

The above lines states the deeper connection if there is one....ATD is redemptive, full of grace as one reviewer out it...I think Pynchon may have been alluding to The Tempest with 'co-consciousness"[sic; ATD allusion]--since he is so aware of everthing he is doing....especially since these baloonists are not nautical..... but you can eliminate it and this defense if you think otherwise.

Interesting, also, that that second line should be comprised primarily of adverbs, so that the novel opens a call for action, and immediately commentary upon the action begins, before, in fact, we get the action itself or even a character or an object.

This discussion probably belongs elsewhere (on the 1-25 page, say), but I think it's a stretch. "Cheerly" is a common nautical term in use for centuries. Naturally any work that uses it will involve ships and such realities of seafaring as storms. As for handsomely, I believe, but am not sure, that it is also a common word among mariners. Lots of words appear first in Shakespeare, so unless there's some stronger connection between ATD and Tempest, I say leave it out. Bleakhaus 15:03, 15 January 2007 (PST)

Dear Bleakhaus, I don't know how to write you re this wiki any other way,but I did want to comment on some of the stuff I wrote that you "cleaned up"..some was written in response to the request not to just 'annotate' and link to wikipedia,but to speculate thematically, intelligently, using the text, etc.....I think Pynchon's words on "the daylit fiction", the "natural wonders" of the Fair, etc. which you have cut, which I put down as questions lead to much possible meaning in ATD.....as do the words and perspective on Pugnax and the book he is reading and what P. may be saying..... But I would, of course. My two cents.

hey MKOHUT-- you can communicate directly with me or any user by editing the discussion page on their user page (click my name, then Discussion, and edit). You can also email me at pabstblueribbon at gmail if you prefer.

I stand by the changes I made, but if you think I've made a mistake, change something back, preferably altered to more fully explained. Just like at Wikipedia, if there is then a dispute it can go to discussion with other people chiming in.

I agree that interpretations are welcome, but they must be tied to Pynchon's text. The ATD Page by Page is not the place to make connections that might be interesting just for the sake of it. It's a place to explicate Pynchon's text. For instance, do we need 265 words on the name "Windy City"? While interesting, it does not illuminate anything about ATD and only bogs down what is meant to be a useful guide to a first-time reader.

Questions are fine as long as you generally want to know the answer. I am worried that the Wiki will get cluttered and less useful for the reader with questions like "The World's Columbian Exposition is a "daylit fiction"?"-- It's vague and is really just a musing. If you have an interpretation, state it.

I endeavor always to respect opinions contributed to the wiki, but if I see something that's unclear and I can't understand it, I will let it slide most places BUT 1-25. It is important to keep the first section cleaned up so we don't lose readers right out of the gate. For instance, I have no idea what someone meant by "Pugnax is a "dog of war", the Chums of Chance have let him slip, or "rescued" him." It's not a complete sentence and doesn't seem to add much. If whoever wrote it wants to explain it a bit better, great, but again, I endeavored today to bring some consistency to Page 1-25 and my edits were, I thought, light. Of course everything is always up for discussion. Bleakhaus 17:29, 15 January 2007 (PST)