Talk:ATD 1-25

11-30-06. Have added the tilda (˜) over the n in Richard Fariña's name in the dedication comment. That tilda makes the ñ a completely different letter and pronunciation than the 'n.' It's important to get all the diacritical marks right for Pynchon's sake (he obsesses over these, like he did over things like the shape of the ampersand on the Mason & Dixon cover)--and also because Fariña's name is Spanish, not the English word for a kind of finely ground breakfast cereal. --Pschmid1 19:59, 30 November 2006 (PST)

no need to add sucha discussion to the talk page: just change it. Bleakhaus 12:24, 5 December 2006 (PST)

Cut contribs- let's talk about them

OK, these are some cuts I made in accordance with the Spoiler policy. Basically, gently referencing a later page is OK but these page-by-page annotations are meant to be followed along through the first reading of the book. The first cut below runs counter to that policy-- the reader has no idea on the first page what The Light Over the Ranges will come to refer to, and we don't want to tell them before they've encountered that information themselves. Bleakhaus 12:22, 5 December 2006 (PST)

1) The Light Over the Ranges
- This exact phrase recurs on page 198 (Book 2) seen by Webb. It also suggests Tesla's 03 July 1899 'vision'. (The singular 'range' seems called for-- so why plural here?)

At least move it to the notes for 198.--Robot 13:31, 5 December 2006 (PST)

OK, it's moved. Bleakhaus 13:52, 5 December 2006 (PST)

2) 'Lad' implies all are under 18 years old.

This was cut not for spoiler reasons, but b/c "lad" can also mean a young man (not necessarily under 18) and, in general, be used by a commanding officer toward his underlings of many ages. Bleakhaus 12:22, 5 December 2006 (PST)

placed this discussion back in. Bleakhaus 13:52, 5 December 2006 (PST)

3) southerly wind
- Blowing from the south to the north. Most likely they're leaving from the New Orleans area (see eg page 29).

This is minor-- it could go back in, if anyone wants. Bleakhaus 12:22, 5 December 2006 (PST)

4) -recently opened'
- 01 May 1893. But page 52 makes it sound later.

Again, a minor one. Bleakhaus 12:22, 5 December 2006 (PST)

5) Page 4:

Professor
- On page 10 this is repeated in quotes.

I stick by this cut. It's a minor point, but especially on page 10 we want a reader following along with the guide to feel that the guide is not getting ahead of him, which could ruin the experience and make him abandon use fo the guide. Bleakhaus 12:22, 5 December 2006 (PST)

6) Page 5:

perpetual-motion machine
- We'll learn on page 8 that it generates its own hydrogen, but how this is powered is not explained.

Agains, let's put this on page 8, then. Bleakhaus 12:22, 5 December 2006 (PST)

Feeling like someone is looking for excuses to trim your work makes one much less enthusiastic about bothering. So don't trim things unless you really believe they degrade the enterprise.--Robot 13:36, 5 December 2006 (PST)

Robot, your contribs are great! please just keep within the spoiler-free spirit of the Page-by-Page and there will never be a problem. Also, if you'd like to add analysis that doesn't need to worry about spoilers, you can add them in the Alpha guide. Thanks, Bleakhaus 13:43, 5 December 2006 (PST)

I feel the same way about editing. Err on the side of keeping it pretty open. Also, I suggest communicating directly with someone you're about to trim. I've only been reformatting -- making things work correctly or look prettier -- and allowing the info to flow. But if there's a dispute about anything, just communicate directly.

Also, re spoilers, I don't think we should get *too* hung up on them. Frankly, I can't really imagine anyone saying anything about what's coming later in the novel that would compromise my enjoyment. Pynchon, for me, is way more about the journey. I wouldn't want someone laying out exactly how it ends, or saying something like, When Frank kills Lake..., or When the Chums of Chance die in a horrible crash, but the subtler things, stuff that might ruin a mystery novel or a heavily plot-driven novel, I'm personally not too concerned about and I don't we should expend too much emotional capital on avoiding them, beyond what's reasonable WikiAdmin 13:50, 5 December 2006 (PST)

I disagree. When i saw a comment *ON PAGE 1* of the Page by Page that said Webb was gonna be killed i was furious. If I were using this wiki for the first time, I would probably never return to it. That said, the spoiler warning at the top will hopefully set the tone. I don't wanna be a Nazi about this, but it's why the Page by Page section was created. Bleakhaus 14:01, 5 December 2006 (PST)

Man, I hope these are hypothetical examples: "...I wouldn't want someone laying out exactly how it ends, or saying something like, When Frank kills Lake..., or When the Chums of Chance die in a horrible crash..."

Well, maybe they are and maybe they're not. You'll just have to wait & see :) WikiAdmin 14:45, 5 December 2006 (PST)

Wow, discussion gets very long very quick. Let me say as a final comment that I apologize if I've offended you, Robot. This whole wiki process is still anarchy, still the wild west and I, like you, am still learning how to best get things done around here. I hope I haven't discouraged you from the wiki cause you've been a valuable contributor so far! Bleakhaus

Ragtime

Doctorow fictionalises the same era, including anarchists, bombings, early Hollywood.--Robot 13:31, 5 December 2006 (PST)

Navigation

I wonder if there isn't some way to connect the annotations by page, perhaps with a little navigation box at the bottom of each set of pages that allows you to go back and forth without having to go back to the main 'Annotations by Page' page and select the next set of pages?

One could just add this at the end with the usual double-equals section header, but then it'd show up in the table of contents at the top. Maybe not a bad thing, but I figured I'd bring it up here and see what folks thought before trying it. -- cswingle Wed Dec 6 09:28:52 AKST 2006

The template ATD PbP inserts the following into an article when you type {{ATD PbP}}:

BlakeStacey 11:31, 6 December 2006 (PST)

well, we've got two options: place the whole table of contents at the bottom of each page, or perhaps just links to the previous and subsequent page. Bleakhaus 14:26, 6 December 2006 (PST)

I don't think the full TOC at the bottom is needed, although we could do it that way. I think it'd be most convenient and inobtrusive if there were links going forward and backward to the previous and next set of pages. For example: (1-25 previous | next 57-80), if you happen to be sitting at the end of pages 26-56. cswingle Wed Dec 6 13:31:57 AKST 2006

Spoiler template

I threw together a spoiler warning template which might be useful for demarcating sections of pages which have spoilers in later parts but not in all. Use {{spoiler}} to get the following:

BlakeStacey 11:20, 6 December 2006 (PST)